Strongly Linked
Jennifer Clay
RIP Magazine
02/96
We've heard the rumors about drugs, death, more drugs, band break-up, dissension, disharmony, estrangement, mutiny and all those other harbingers of doom.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The majority of what you read in those other mags, see on TV, and heard through the gossip grapevine about Alice In Chains is essentially untrue. Who cares anyway? They're artists, not politicians. Do we really need to run their names through the, well, dirt? Nah. Let's just leave it at four "normal" guys who like to have a good time -- which I can attest to. There's nothing wrong with that, is there? After all, it's their lives, bodies, hearts, minds and souls!
What matters is their music, into which they certainly pour enough of their lives, bodies, hearts, minds and souls to appease any listener. Since their inception in 1987, Alice In Chains has made some fuckin' incredible music -- three albums and three EPs -- including their latest, simply titled Alice In Chains. Entombed in Seattle's Bad Animals studio during the rainy spring of 1995 with co-producer Toby Wright(AIC, COC, Slayer), the three Seattlites -- vocalist Layne Staley, guitarist Jerry Cantrell and drummer Sean Kinney -- and one Los Angeleno -- bassist Mike Inez -- wrote, recorded and produced a very "Alice" record, maybe even more "Alice" than their previous discs. This one debuted on the charts at No. 1, as did their 1994 EP, Jar of Flies. Alice In Chains much like the members themselves, is dark, moody and hard-hitting, but with a witty, sarcastic edge. It's riddled with clever, poignant lines and bold statements, both lyrically and musically.
Jerry and Mike not only sat still long enough to let RIP probe into their lives and the band's business, but played the role of gracious (yes, gracious) hosts with smiles and stimulating conversation as we set about exploring and eating in each of their hometowns.
GUITAR GURU
Although I was told my time with Jerry would be roughly an hour, we, in fact, spent some six hours cruising around Seattle -- time which was actually cut unexpectedly short. "I'm all yours," he said as he maneuvered his truck through the Emerald City traffic. "For tonight, anyway," he added laughing.
We met at one of those little-known dive bars in a very non-touristy section -- you know -- two pool tables, a dart board, cheap beer, potato chips and canned sodas. After a few games of pool (dubbing ourselves the scratch team) at the Lido Inn, we departed for the Frontier Room, the bar with allegedly the strongest drinks in town (purely for my benefit as Jerry drank beer). Within the dark confines of the windowless bar and our conversation, we lost track of time and nearly missed the sunset at Discovery Park's Sand Cliffs (for my benefit again). A few snapshots and sighs at the breathtaking view and we were off again, this time to talk "officially" over sushi, sake and Sapporo (the three important "S's) in the trendy Capitol Hill area. Full to the gills, the deep-thinking "big kid" and I continued to wander and converse about life, this time in a "dude" bar with a great view. Business was done, and we were set to relax.
The tragic news of Shannon Hoon's death was relayed to Jerry at the bar. As a close friend of the Blind Melon singer, Jerry took the news hard. Enough said on a very private matter.
RIP: Let's talk about the pressures first.
JC: The pressures! Wow... Being in a professional band, pressure is something you thrive on. It's necessary [in order] to be able accomplish anything. Pressure to succeed, pressure to... whatever. I put plenty of pressure on myself, which is all I pretty much worry about; to do as well as I can. [drinking] Cheers.
RIP: What about the business pressures, are there more now than in the last few years?
JC: We've always had a really good relationship with Sony. We were always able to pretty much artistically do what we wanted to. We were given the freedom to write the kind of songs we wanted to, with no outside pressure. And during this last year and a half since we've been pretty much out of the public eye, mostly by choice, they've been very supportive as well.
RIP: Have you fulfilled your Columbia Records obligation?
JC: I don't even hardly think about that kinda shit. It's a thing for my lawyer to deal with. All I'm concerned about is making music. By no means are we not involved in that, but it's just something that, you know, would take up way too fucking much of your time.
RIP: There was a period where Alice stopped doing press...
JC: We stopped doing press right about the time, right after Jar of Flies, when we tried to make it onto a Metallica tour, which we ended up canceling for, uh, you know, reasons, you know, that we expressed. We were just done, we were basically just tired. We were worn out, so we'd pretty much had it, physically and mentally. I mean, we'd been on tour for, God, years and years. We took it to that forced limit of everything: touring, making records, whatever. I mean, we did it all. We did as much as we could. Then, all of a sudden after Lollapalooza, we ended up home, and it was like, even up till that point of Lollapalooza we were still sleeping on people's couches! I mean, still, because we hadn't been home to even. . . Even though we'd been doing well, as a band, and there was a way to have your "own" place, we just didn't have the time! We were constantly gone, so after living that life for a while, it was really fun to sit down and just let Alice rest for a while. That was basically what we did. And it sparked off a ton of new rumors, which were spawned off the Dirt rumors...
RIP: Do you care about the rumors?
JC: Not really. I can't say that it doesn't bother me at times, when I'm in certain situations or when it gets back to my family. . .I gotta deal with my grandmother freaking out about something she read about me in the paper -- "Oh my God! I read you were dead, and I had to call you!" "Grandma, well, you're talking to me now, I'm here, I'm okay! I told you before, don't listen to that fucking bullshit, 'cause it's mostly that: bullshit." I look pretty good, for a corpse, don't I? [laughs] Well, see, I'm just very stubborn! I've been dead for a couple of years now. My body just won't lie down.
RIP: So is Alice back now?
JC: Well, we've been working for the last six months on a record, so, yeah, I mean, it's not like we ever... I mean maybe, possibly we went away, because we weren't in the public eye or whatever, but really. We just needed to sit down and chill out and figure out what was happening for ourselves, individually, not just like as a group. It's a real tough thing to deal with. I remember talking to you briefly tonight about living and working with somebody. That's really hard. It's a tough situation to deal with sometimes, you know? There's tense moments, there's very tense moments. And the more , and it's gonna cause that angst. So, basically that's what it was; we just all sat down and I mean... [laughs] We went out and we bought our homes, and got a little bit of our individual lives together, and explored things that we wanted to explore individually. Some of that turned out musically as well. Layne did Mad Season in the offtime. I worked on some stuff. We basically just took it at our own pace, which we always have. The only thing that, at times, can make it semi-difficult is, the constant pressure of "having to have something out," and that really comes from the press.
RIP: With the new record, was there pressure to do it?
JC: No! No, it's really good. I'm really happy about this record, a lot. It's probably the most "Alice" record we've ever done. it's like there's more of a sense of humor, more sarcasm, it's more dark. It's more "Alice," Goddamnit!
RIP: It's definitely more dark. Is that more "Alice?"
JC: I don't know -- we seem to keep that kind of shroud of mystery about us, really. That's not a "dark" thing. Lyrically, people ask what certain things are about or, "Do you guys think about these kinda things all day?" Like, it's so grim, blah, blah, blah... It's like, you hang out with me 23 hours out of the day, I'm gonna be like a total whacked-out idiot, you know, having fun. A goofy kid at a fair, you know. I like to have as much fun as possible. Really! I'm like, "Let's go on this ride. Let's get some cotton candy!" I'm a big kid. [laughs]
RIP: So where does that darkness come, for a big kid who likes to ride rides?
JC: That's the old "adult" side of things. I mean, everybody gets pissed off, I get pissed off about anything: the garbage man didn't come today, my dog's chewed up my satellite TV cord thing, or somebody was a dick to me, or whatever. That's where I end up writing from. And it's pretty spontaneous; I don't sit down and go "Okay, let's write another dark tune," or something like that. You just take it off your daily experience, what happened to you that day.
RIP: Is it therapeutic? Is it fun?
JC: Very much so, It's kind of a way to communicate without actually physically talking to somebody. [laughs] which can be kind of difficult sometimes. It's a lot of things. It's a release, you know. It's like having sex, or a real good super-deep conversation. Without having the conversation. Without actually having the sex. So I guess it's my argument for safe sex! [laughs] Play more music and you'll live longer! [laughs]
RIP: Did you switch from the title Tripod [which came from a dog that used to chase Sean on his paper route] to a self-titled record because it's more "Alice?"
JC: Well, I wouldn't say like anything less, like less "Alice" from what we did before. It's just a little bit more tongue-in-cheek, but at the same time it's a pretty vicious record. What I meant by that, I guess, is that it's a lot heavier record. I think the thing that I'm really happy about is that we've been able to do whatever we wanted to do musically. And still make good music, not at the sake of just doing something to just to something different.
RIP: You've used the word "sarcastic." Is a lot of it sarcastic?
JC: Sure. Not when I'm talking to you about it, although I could whip out some sarcasm for ya real quick if you like! [laughs] No, basically what I was trying to say is you have to have a sense of humor about yourself, you have to have a sense of humor about it. You know, getting too dark is not a good thing. Keeping everything all balled up inside you is not a good thing. Having music to be able to get that shit out is very cool. It's very healthy.
RIP: How often do you and Layne sit together and write?
JC: Sometimes we do, sometimes we won't. Some of our stuff is done like, Layne will come up with something and we'll end up working it into a song. Other times Layne and I have sat down and worked stuff out. Other times Sean and I will jam stuff out, and we'll bring it in together. You never know where inspiration's gonna come from, basically, but the thing that makes it a band is that everybody's got great ideas, and everybody's very talented. So, it's just a matter of throwing all of your ideas in the middle of each other, and then just picking out the ones that everybody latches on to. We've got to pretty much be unanimous on it, and actually, just wait for that to happen...
RIP: When you wrote the song, "Heaven Beside You," did you think of Layne singing it, and not you singing it?
JC: The songs I ended up singing on, which were "Over Now", "Heaven Beside You" and "Grind", are my leads; Everything else I'm backing Layne up, where I'd be more comfortable singing! [laughs] But it's cool, those songs turned out really good, and I was really surprised that it turned out as well as it did... I'm like pretty much my toughest critic. You can say all the shit you want to say about me left and right, but, to me, I guarantee it, you ain't hittin' me any harder than I've already hit myself.
RIP: I was listening to you singing in the car. Do you want to sing more?
JC: No, I'd actually like to sing a whole lot less! [laughs] I think Layne kind of started me singing, when we did "Would?" It was my first kinda lead vocal-type "thing." I can sing fine, but, to be honest with you, I'm a lazy... I'd much prefer to sit back and just jam. For some guys, it's real easy to play guitar and sing at the same time; it's like walkin' and chewing bubble gum, I'm one of those guys that has a problem doing that. [laughs] It's definitely something I have to work at, but I'm taking on more vocal responsibilities and... that's basically been from Layne's support. Like him going like, "Hey, man, you should fucking sing that song." I'm like, "Dude, I don't want to sing it." And he's like, "You should fuckin' sing it! You wrote the damn thing and you sound good at it. Fuckin' sing!" So it's been a combination of his support and everybody else in the band as well, and my kind of putting my own fears behind me. It's real intimidating, too, for myself, working behind a guy like Layne, you know; he's the fuckin' king. You just don't touch the motherfucker. He's a badass.
RIP: Some of the lyrics seem pretty dark, but the music seems more... upbeat for Alice. Like "Over Now."
JC: "Over Now" I wouldn't say is characteristic of the record, as far as like the main vibe of it. I think maybe... upbeat? Tempo-wise, it's pretty aggressive, as far as that. Yeah, I'd say you're right, there. As far as lyrically, though, and the vibe of the music, I wouldn't call it upbeat. I'd call it more aggressive.
RIP: With "Over Now" being the last song on the record, is that an Alice sense of humor?
JC: Who knows? Figure that on out yourself, kids. [laughs] I'll not comment on that. [long pause] If we were going to stop, that'd be a great way to do it. And if we weren't, that would be a great way to fucking have some laughs about it as well. So, we'll just leave it right there.
RIP: It's also a good way to do it, if it were the last album, to have it self-titled.
JC: Uh-huh. I don't think about what I can't do, I think more about what I can do, which is what this record's all about.
RIP: Why did you pick "Grind," a pretty heavy song, as your first single? Do you think it's representative of the record?
JC: Yeah, I think so. I think it pretty much sets the tone right off the bat. We just recorded everything on the record, and when you're done recording, generally then, that's when you're thinking about how it all fits together... That one just seemed, after the time off we've had, I think the first couple lines and stuff in that song, and the intensity of it, I think that's what needed to be said. It's just like, "Don't count me out! Don't fuckin' count me out." [laughs]
RIP: Do you think people did?
JC: Not the people that have always been with us, I don't think they ever counted us out. But I think others did. But that's all right. Like I said: That's just part of life. You can't please everybody. You just gotta do what you do, and do it the best way you know how. That's all I ever really try to do.
RIP: Do the members of Alice all pretty much want the same thing?
JC: I would say, to that question, yes and no. With any group of individuals, you're gonna have different opinions. Sometimes you have to look at things for the better of the whole, instead of individually. But as far as what we've put out musically, yeah, I'd say we're pretty together on that. And I couldn't explain to you what formula that is, or what makes us all happy, but there's definitely a point where you reach, where you can look each other in the eye, and that's why I enjoy playing with Layne and Sean and Mike so much, and always have, is that you've got that honesty there.
RIP: So, let's get the rumor stuff out of the way.
JC: Well, I'll just tell you now, I'm not into confirming or denying anything, so... [laughs] The facts of the matter aren't due out, for a while, I mean, we got this record together now, which is, like I said, I think our best record to date. That shit's gonna follow us around forever, and that's fine. Doesn't mean I need to tip my hat to it at every corner.
RIP: Layne, and everyone else, looks really good. How is Layne doing?
JC: Ohhh, I don't know, you wanna call him up? Find out how his state of mind is right now? [sarcastically] Actually, he could probably give you a stool sample if you'd like! He might be able to set you up with his physician so he could give you the whole physical run-down of how he is and his mental state. He's fucking fine. I just finished living, you know, working with the guy for six months, he ain't no different than he ever...
RIP: Did he take any time off?
JC: We kind of took a little time off before he even started up in Mad Season. We really, really kind of sat down for a little while, then he started working with Mad Season. I did this Willie Nelson thing during that time, which was really fun! [laughs] I didn't want to [cover] "On The Road Again"! I wanted to hear some stuff that was obscure, darker stuff or whatever. Or anything, of course, I'm looking for an angle because I'm pretty good with that! [laughs] So, [Willie Nelson's management] sent me a tape of like 40 songs, and I was driving around in my truck just listening to the tape, and about the sixth or seventh song in, the one I covered ["Care To See"] was there. I got the lyrics, and I said "This is the one!" It's not a real faithful rendition, I guess, of the song, but it's my version, and I'm really happy with it.
RIP: If Alice continues or if Alice doesn't continue, do you want to do your own stuff too?
JC: I've had some fun doing some things on the side. It's satisfying and it's scary. It's real satisfying to do, number one, because it's outside of your normal sphere of what you're used to and having your guys to back you up, you know what I mean? Having an idea in your head, and not having the walls that you're used to bouncing shit off of--- In a situation where it's on your own, it's satisfying because you're out on your own, so it's totally foreign. Also, there's way less expectations of maybe what you could do, or... I think Alice could do whatever the fuck Alice wants to do, but I think individually, we could even go even further. But my main interest and my main love has always been with this band, and that's why we're still here and that's why this record's comin' out, pretty much.
RIP: "Grind" went to radio a week early. Did you want it and the record to be pushed out, or would you rather have it a little slower?
JC: No! I mean, I'm glad it's out. When it's done, you don't want it to sit around. Like have a record you just did and have it come out six months later. By the time it comes out, you're o goddamn tired of it. Like, you did a great job at it, but by that time you're fuckin' already thinkin' about the next record. Your sights are on the next peak, you know? And generally, that's when you gotta go back out, and you go out and tour on your record and stuff, so it kind of puts you back in a state of retardation. [laughs] But it's also nice to give that music it's due, live. That's also something that I wouldn't plan on us not doing, either.
RIP: So there could be a tour?
JC: Well... I'm... I would... I would say that... I'm not saying anything at this point! That's generally the stance that we're talking. Just from the fact that we have overextended ourselves in the past where we couldn't make something. That is not cool, I mean, telling people that you're gonna be at a fuckin' gig, and not be there... it's not a cool thing. I don't feel good about that, because that's my word on the line, that's my ass on the line, and I don't like to say something that I'm not going to do. But also: shit happens. That's the reason why I'm not saying anything definite, but if something does happen, it'll probably be around... it'd be sometime in [1996]. I'm not really at liberty to say when we're gonna play because I'm not the spokesman for the band. We all decide everything together, and so, it's something that we've discussed, we've talked about, and we haven't come to a decision yet. My point is, that I wouldn't count us out. [chuckles] I wouldn't count on us not doing it, and I wouldn't count on us doing it. Both ways.
RIP: Fortune cookie time?
JC: Let me see what it says... Wait a minute. Look at what it says. "I'm a lucky guy."
RIP: Na-ah! What does it say?
JC: "Your happiness is intertwined with your outlook on life." Very nice. I couldn't have said it bettert better! [laughs]
